Dear Everyone;
There is a new discussion in Flayrah of the periodic question of why there
is no Best Fursuit category in the Ursa Major Awards. I am posting this to
the Discussion Group rather than just the Committee, for a more widespread
discussion.
The arguments for a Fursuit category are that cameras and videos are more
widespread and of higher quality today than they were in 2001. Any fursuit
worth recommending &/or winning an award would have at least one
high-quality photo or video online where the UMA website could link to it,
as it does to Published Illustrations. The ALAA could ask for a photo or
video to be put online, as it does in the case of recommended illustrations
that are not already online. If the Fursuiter does not put something
online, then he will be in the same position as the artists of Published
Illustrations that are recommended but unavailable online; they never get
enough votes to win. That is their problem, not the ALAA's. (The main
discusser of this is Rakuen Growlithe, in South Africa.)
Discussion? Is a Best Fursuit category now practical?
Best wishes;
Fred
Dear Everyone;
There is a new discussion in Flayrah of the periodic question of why there is
no Best Fursuit category in the Ursa Major Awards. I am posting this to the
Discussion Group rather than just the Committee, for a more widespread
discussion.
The arguments for a Fursuit category are that cameras and videos are more
widespread and of higher quality today than they were in 2001. Any fursuit
worth recommending &/or winning an award would have at least one high-quality
photo or video online where the UMA website could link to it, as it does to
Published Illustrations. The ALAA could ask for a photo or video to be put
online, as it does in the case of recommended illustrations that are not
already online. If the Fursuiter does not put something online, then he will
be in the same position as the artists of Published Illustrations that are
recommended but unavailable online; they never get enough votes to win. That
is their problem, not the ALAA's. (The main discusser of this is Rakuen
Growlithe, in South Africa.)
Discussion? Is a Best Fursuit category now practical?
Best wishes;
Fred
I think if Fursuits are to be considered, there should be two categories:
Best Performance in Costume (linked to specific events such as furry variety
shows or perhaps just someone who really inhabits a character--those are
qualities important to costumers), and Best New Costume (for the costume that
makes its first appearance in that year). This would reward the builders for
the design of the costumes, and the performers for their work, and plus it
would restrict the award to things that happen that year--the reason I think
a simple "Best Fursuit" award is problematic is the same reason we don't have
a "Best Artist" award.
The two things fursuiters really seem to care about are: (a) is it a cute
costume, and (b) is the person wearing it a good performer? I think those are
the lines any future award would have to follow. I would also recommend,
though, that someone like Jimmy Chin and/or Robert King, veterans of the
fursuit community, be consulted before a final decision is made.
: Tim
On 5/10/2013 9:03 AM, Fred Patten wrote:
Dear Everyone;
There is a new discussion in Flayrah of the periodic question of why there
is no Best Fursuit category in the Ursa Major Awards. I am posting this to
the Discussion Group rather than just the Committee, for a more widespread
discussion.
The arguments for a Fursuit category are that cameras and videos are more
widespread and of higher quality today than they were in 2001. Any fursuit
worth recommending &/or winning an award would have at least one
high-quality photo or video online where the UMA website could link to it,
as it does to Published Illustrations. The ALAA could ask for a photo or
video to be put online, as it does in the case of recommended illustrations
that are not already online. If the Fursuiter does not put something
online, then he will be in the same position as the artists of Published
Illustrations that are recommended but unavailable online; they never get
enough votes to win. That is their problem, not the ALAA's. (The main
discusser of this is Rakuen Growlithe, in South Africa.)
Discussion? Is a Best Fursuit category now practical?
Best wishes;
Fred
Dear Tim;
Well-reasoned, but this comes up against the perennial complaint that there
are already too many categories as it is. If we were to add two new
categories, for Best Performance and Best New Fursuit -- well, that seems
like a good argument for a separate fursuit award entirely rather than adding
to the existing Ursa Major categories.
Best wishes;
Fred
On May 10, 2013, at 9:42 AM, Tim Susman <vulpes@earthlink.net> wrote:
I think if Fursuits are to be considered, there should be two categories:
Best Performance in Costume (linked to specific events such as furry variety
shows or perhaps just someone who really inhabits a character--those are
qualities important to costumers), and Best New Costume (for the costume
that makes its first appearance in that year). This would reward the
builders for the design of the costumes, and the performers for their work,
and plus it would restrict the award to things that happen that year--the
reason I think a simple "Best Fursuit" award is problematic is the same
reason we don't have a "Best Artist" award.
The two things fursuiters really seem to care about are: (a) is it a cute
costume, and (b) is the person wearing it a good performer? I think those
are the lines any future award would have to follow. I would also recommend,
though, that someone like Jimmy Chin and/or Robert King, veterans of the
fursuit community, be consulted before a final decision is made.
: Tim
On 5/10/2013 9:03 AM, Fred Patten wrote:
Dear Everyone;
There is a new discussion in Flayrah of the periodic question of why there
is no Best Fursuit category in the Ursa Major Awards. I am posting this to
the Discussion Group rather than just the Committee, for a more widespread
discussion.
The arguments for a Fursuit category are that cameras and videos are more
widespread and of higher quality today than they were in 2001. Any fursuit
worth recommending &/or winning an award would have at least one
high-quality photo or video online where the UMA website could link to it,
as it does to Published Illustrations. The ALAA could ask for a photo or
video to be put online, as it does in the case of recommended illustrations
that are not already online. If the Fursuiter does not put something
online, then he will be in the same position as the artists of Published
Illustrations that are recommended but unavailable online; they never get
enough votes to win. That is their problem, not the ALAA's. (The main
discusser of this is Rakuen Growlithe, in South Africa.)
Discussion? Is a Best Fursuit category now practical?
Best wishes;
Fred
Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 05:40:49 +1000
From: goldfur@gmail.com
To: discussion@ursamajorawards.org
Subject: Re: [UMA-discussion] Recommended/Best Fursuit again
Additionally, I do not support the idea of a separate award. One of theThere's a reason that the Oscars are not the Tony's are not the Emmy's are not
strengths of this fandom is its diversity, so what would we gain from
partitioning it off from the rest of the awards? I'd far prefer to keep
everything united under one managing body. This also helps strengthen
the Ursa Major Awards as the premiere achievement in anthropomorphics as
a whole.
~Goldfur
Dear Tim;
Well-reasoned, but this comes up against the perennial complaint that there
are already too many categories as it is. If we were to add two new
categories, for Best Performance and Best New Fursuit -- well, that seems like
a good argument for a separate fursuit award entirely rather than adding to
the existing Ursa Major categories.
Best wishes;
Fred
On May 10, 2013, at 9:42 AM, Tim Susman <vulpes@earthlink.net> wrote:
I think if Fursuits are to be considered, there should be two categories:
Best Performance in Costume (linked to specific events such as furry variety
shows or perhaps just someone who really inhabits a character--those are
qualities important to costumers), and Best New Costume (for the costume
that makes its first appearance in that year). This would reward the
builders for the design of the costumes, and the performers for their work,
and plus it would restrict the award to things that happen that year--the
reason I think a simple "Best Fursuit" award is problematic is the same
reason we don't have a "Best Artist" award.
The two things fursuiters really seem to care about are: (a) is it a cute
costume, and (b) is the person wearing it a good performer? I think those
are the lines any future award would have to follow. I would also recommend,
though, that someone like Jimmy Chin and/or Robert King, veterans of the
fursuit community, be consulted before a final decision is made.
: Tim
On 5/10/2013 9:03 AM, Fred Patten wrote:
Dear Everyone;
There is a new discussion in Flayrah of the periodic question of why there
is no Best Fursuit category in the Ursa Major Awards. I am posting this to
the Discussion Group rather than just the Committee, for a more widespread
discussion.
The arguments for a Fursuit category are that cameras and videos are more
widespread and of higher quality today than they were in 2001. Any
fursuit worth recommending &/or winning an award would have at least one
high-quality photo or video online where the UMA website could link to it,
as it does to Published Illustrations. The ALAA could ask for a photo or
video to be put online, as it does in the case of recommended
illustrations that are not already online. If the Fursuiter does not put
something online, then he will be in the same position as the artists of
Published Illustrations that are recommended but unavailable online; they
never get enough votes to win. That is their problem, not the ALAA's.
(The main discusser of this is Rakuen Growlithe, in South Africa.)
I like the idea of Best Fursuit (or Anthropomorphic Costume), awarded to theSame here.
builder. I don't think the category title should include the word "new" as
that's implied in all the category titles. We can refer to the Fursuit
Database for date of debut/eligibility.
Performances can already be recommended or nominated under Dramatic Short
Work, but few have been doing so (e.g. Sardyuon's performance at Anthrocon
last year).
I second the notion of consulting with veteran fursuiters.
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 09:42:32 -0700
From: vulpes@earthlink.net
To: discussion@ursamajorawards.org
Subject: Re: [UMA-discussion] Recommended/Best Fursuit again
I think if Fursuits are to be considered, there should be two
categories: Best Performance in Costume (linked to specific events such
as furry variety shows or perhaps just someone who really inhabits a
character--those are qualities important to costumers), and Best New
Costume (for the costume that makes its first appearance in that year).
This would reward the builders for the design of the costumes, and the
performers for their work, and plus it would restrict the award to
things that happen that year--the reason I think a simple "Best Fursuit"
award is problematic is the same reason we don't have a "Best Artist" award.
The two things fursuiters really seem to care about are: (a) is it a
cute costume, and (b) is the person wearing it a good performer? I think
those are the lines any future award would have to follow. I would also
recommend, though, that someone like Jimmy Chin and/or Robert King,
veterans of the fursuit community, be consulted before a final decision
is made.
: Tim
*groan* I do NOT want to try and come up with criteria for what constitutes a
good Performance, and how to go about trying to vote on it. Frankly, my gut
feeling is still that this is such a complicated can of worms that we should
stay away from it at all costs. In fact, if there IS to be a fursuit award
(or two, or three) I would almost suggest that it be its own award by itself,
outside of the Ursa Majors -- and administered by its own committee!
ROR
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 09:42:32 -0700
From: vulpes@earthlink.net
To: discussion@ursamajorawards.org
Subject: Re: [UMA-discussion] Recommended/Best Fursuit again
I think if Fursuits are to be considered, there should be two
categories: Best Performance in Costume (linked to specific events such
as furry variety shows or perhaps just someone who really inhabits a
character--those are qualities important to costumers), and Best New
Costume (for the costume that makes its first appearance in that year).
This would reward the builders for the design of the costumes, and the
performers for their work, and plus it would restrict the award to
things that happen that year--the reason I think a simple "Best Fursuit"
award is problematic is the same reason we don't have a "Best Artist" award.
The two things fursuiters really seem to care about are: (a) is it a
cute costume, and (b) is the person wearing it a good performer? I think
those are the lines any future award would have to follow. I would also
recommend, though, that someone like Jimmy Chin and/or Robert King,
veterans of the fursuit community, be consulted before a final decision
is made.
: Tim
Dear Everyone;
I will go along with Rod on this one. My feelings toward the ALAA getting
involved in Fursuit awards is the same as Leon Schlesinger's about making a
feature-length cartoon for Warner Bros. in imitation of Disney's Snow White:
"I need a feature like I need two assholes!"
Best wishes;
Fred
On May 11, 2013, at 12:55 AM, Rodney Stansfield <rodso64@hotmail.com> wrote:
*groan* I do NOT want to try and come up with criteria for what constitutes
a good Performance, and how to go about trying to vote on it. Frankly, my
gut feeling is still that this is such a complicated can of worms that we
should stay away from it at all costs. In fact, if there IS to be a fursuit
award (or two, or three) I would almost suggest that it be its own award by
itself, outside of the Ursa Majors -- and administered by its own committee!
ROR
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 09:42:32 -0700
From: vulpes@earthlink.net
To: discussion@ursamajorawards.org
Subject: Re: [UMA-discussion] Recommended/Best Fursuit again
I think if Fursuits are to be considered, there should be two
categories: Best Performance in Costume (linked to specific events such
as furry variety shows or perhaps just someone who really inhabits a
character--those are qualities important to costumers), and Best New
Costume (for the costume that makes its first appearance in that year).
This would reward the builders for the design of the costumes, and the
performers for their work, and plus it would restrict the award to
things that happen that year--the reason I think a simple "Best Fursuit"
award is problematic is the same reason we don't have a "Best Artist"
award.
The two things fursuiters really seem to care about are: (a) is it a
cute costume, and (b) is the person wearing it a good performer? I think
those are the lines any future award would have to follow. I would also
recommend, though, that someone like Jimmy Chin and/or Robert King,
veterans of the fursuit community, be consulted before a final decision
is made.
: Tim
Hi Everyone,
I'm really flattered to be mentioned as a possible gatekeeper for such an
award, but there are two problems: 1. I'm not current on fursuiting -- I
lost track of the state of the art somewhere about 10 years ago. So I'm
more of a fursuit historian than current expert.
2. As pointed out by others, the complexity of such a set of awards will
EXPLODE. Constructor vs owner, Performance in single or group, in fandom vs
professional, mascot vs realistic vs kigurumi, etc. etc.
Plus, there isn't always a notable new fursuit every year.
The only plausible award I can see would be a Fandom Fursuit Hall of Fame
award. This would be given only on an as needed basis to great creators or
performers of the past as well as present. When you give Hall of Fame awards,
it is understood that you are not necessarily comparing apples to apples, so
you get to avoid the complexity explosion.
Thanks!
Robert King
On 5/11/2013 3:17 AM, Fred Patten wrote:
Dear Everyone;
I will go along with Rod on this one. My feelings toward the ALAA getting
involved in Fursuit awards is the same as Leon Schlesinger's about making a
feature-length cartoon for Warner Bros. in imitation of Disney's Snow White:
"I need a feature like I need two assholes!"
Best wishes;
Fred
On May 11, 2013, at 12:55 AM, Rodney Stansfield <rodso64@hotmail.com> wrote:
*groan* I do NOT want to try and come up with criteria for what constitutes
a good Performance, and how to go about trying to vote on it. Frankly, my
gut feeling is still that this is such a complicated can of worms that we
should stay away from it at all costs. In fact, if there IS to be a
fursuit award (or two, or three) I would almost suggest that it be its own
award by itself, outside of the Ursa Majors -- and administered by its own
committee!
ROR
Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 09:42:32 -0700
From: vulpes@earthlink.net
To: discussion@ursamajorawards.org
Subject: Re: [UMA-discussion] Recommended/Best Fursuit again
I think if Fursuits are to be considered, there should be two
categories: Best Performance in Costume (linked to specific events such
as furry variety shows or perhaps just someone who really inhabits a
character--those are qualities important to costumers), and Best New
Costume (for the costume that makes its first appearance in that year).
This would reward the builders for the design of the costumes, and the
performers for their work, and plus it would restrict the award to
things that happen that year--the reason I think a simple "Best Fursuit"
award is problematic is the same reason we don't have a "Best Artist"
award.
The two things fursuiters really seem to care about are: (a) is it a
cute costume, and (b) is the person wearing it a good performer? I think
those are the lines any future award would have to follow. I would also
recommend, though, that someone like Jimmy Chin and/or Robert King,
veterans of the fursuit community, be consulted before a final decision
is made.
: Tim
There is a new discussion in Flayrah of the periodic question of
why there is no Best Fursuit category in the Ursa Major Awards.
Discussion? Is a Best Fursuit category now practical?